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SOL Rising
Number 26, April 2002
Fantastic
Art Show: The Friends of the Merril Collection’s First Fantasy &
Science Fiction Art Show
View From The Chair: Programming A Merril
Collection Event
Collection Head: The Great Divide
Interview: Ed Greenwood
Ed Greenwood’s Bibliography
Colin Wilson and the Royal Ripper Rumpus
Nothing But ‘Net: Websites of Interest
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Fantastic
Art Show: The Friends of the Merril Collection’s First Fantasy &
Science Fiction Art Show
January 27th,
2002
saw the launch of the Friends of the Merril Collection's first Fantasy and
Science Fiction Art Show, organized by Claudiu Murgan of the Friends of the Merril Collection
Executive Committee. This remarkable exhibition of fantasy and science
fiction art features art work by Francois Baril,
Dominic Bercier, Heather Bruton,
Eric Burt, Sergiu Grapa,
Ron Kasman, and Aurel Manole. All twenty-nine pieces in the show are
available for purchase and will be on display in the Merril Collection's
reading room until April 26.
This year's exhibition is the start of what we know
will become a popular recurring event on the Friends future agenda. And
just how do we program our events? The Chair of the executive committee
explains...
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View
From The Chair: Programming A Merril Collection Event
The Fantastic Art Exhibit currently being held at the
Merril Collection is remarkable and those of you
who haven't yet viewed it, should. Featuring a wide variety of high quality
art by renowned artists, both Canadian and European, the show will be on
until April 26. Aside from being the first art show at the Collection, it
was also the first time an event was organized by one person, Mr. Claudiu Murgan. This was one
of the few occasions where most of the groundwork in creating an event was
done for us; thank you Claudiu for all your hard
work.
Each year the Collection has at least six events. We
have annual events like the Pulp Show and the Christmas Cream Tea, as well
as various book launches, author readings and lectures. None of these
occasions are easy to organize. The process begins with the executive
committee choosing an event. At each monthly meeting various ideas for
programming are discussed.
Once an idea is under serious consideration, someone
is given the responsibility of further exploring the idea's, pros &
cons, and its appeal to Merril members and to the community. A report is
given at the following meeting where the idea is either scrapped entirely
or scheduled as a future event. Once scheduled, we then decide which
executive member is most qualified to work on the project ‑ working
closely with the staff of the Merril Collection to organize the event and a
possible accompanying display. This includes frequent dealings with authors
(and their agents, publishers and publicists), caterers, and the
promotional details of the event. Events are publicized within the TPL
system, on our web site, and by such media as Space Television.
Most importantly, the Merril Collection events are
publicized by promotional flyers, designed by Givago
Silva, and are posted at the Merril Collection,
the TPL, and businesses such as Bakka &
Siren. If it's a book launch or reading arrangements are made with a vendor
to have copies of the author's books available for sale.
Theme events such as our J.R.R. Tolkien
or 2001 exhibits are more involved and require considerable time and effort
‑ especially if done in conjunction with another group such as the
recent Footsteps of the Hound Conference put on by the Arthur Conan Doyle
Collection. The amount of time and research involved in preparing this type
of event can be staggering.
Everyone works together to produce highly enjoyable
events. We owe the volunteers and the staff our thanks and appreciation for
their efforts over the years, in particular Annette Mocek
and Kim Hull who create the stunning displays and wonderfully creative
decorations.
I'd like to remind everyone of the 6th annual
Fantastic Pulps Show & Sale—Saturday, April 27 from 10-5. It will
be held on the lower level of the Lillian H. Smith Branch, TPL, 239 College St. The dealers room will have it's usual great selection of Pulp magazines and
ephemera, including rare and collectable sf.
Upstairs in the Merril Collection there will be a display of Pulps and a
slide show of Pulp artwork. It's a marvelous show and I urge everyone to
attend.
Jamie Fraser, Chair
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Recently, when I asked the students in a grade 6 class
touring the Merril Collection if they had seen The Fellowship of the Ring, they all had. Then I asked if they
had all seen the Harry Potter movie and they giggled at me.
"Oh, yes, "several of them said. "Twice," others assured me.
So, finally, there is an excellent fantasy
movie—The Fellowship of the
Ring, and an extremely popular movie, Hany Potter and the Philosopher's Stone. It made me wonder why it
has taken so long to develop significant fantasy movies and TV, when
fantasy in print has been wildly popular in North America since the 1960s.
Now, I have always thought that everyone yearns for
fantasy somewhere in their life. I once talked to someone who felt the same
way about professional football, and they were surprised,
and quite hurt, to learn that I would rather bite off my head and spit down
my neck, than watch an entire football game.
Science fiction has done better, but traditional
fantasy on TV and in the movies has been mediocre at best until quite
recently, when Buffy the Vampire
Slayer appeared on TV, and now, The
Fellowship of the Ring, in the theatres. When I refer to fantasy
movies, I am talking about fantasy which follows the basic quest model, and
which may or may not involve mythical creatures and imaginary kingdoms.
Until the advent of Harry Potter and
The Fellowship of the Ring, the
best fantasy movie which I had ever seen was Being John Malkovitch.
Earlier fantasy movies were misfires to a greater or
lesser degree. Many were produced; none of them worked particularly well. Willow comes to mind. The problems
weren't necessarily due to budgetary or technological limitations. The
creators failed to grasp the essential element of fantasy, common to both The Lord of the Rings and Harry Potter and the Philosopher's
Stone, wherein the protagonist hero is the person who pays the price to
defeat the dark. Magic is not a plot device to make the hero's life easy;
magic amplifies the reach and impact of hard decisions. When the writer
uses magic to make all of the protagonist's problems go away, all of the
story's dramatic tension goes with them.
One popular theory suggests that the people who grew
up reading fantasy—hence have a clearer understanding of why it works—finally
achieved sufficient experience and influence to become this generation's
myth-makers. Testing this theory: if you accept that science fiction
achieved mass popularity during the forties and fifties, this would go some
way to explaining why science fiction succeeded in the mass media so far in
the advance of fantasy. Fantasy in print-form really didn't become hugely
successful until the 1960s. So, the children of the counterculture of the
'60s embraced the Lord of the Rings trilogy,
as did their more conservative children, and now their grandchildren read,
write and watch fantasy as well as science fiction in the media. Think
critical mass.
This may be part of the answer, but surely not all of
it. The X-Files was successful in
the mainstream, with people who were not otherwise interested in the
fantastic. People working in mass media considered it significant, because
it was a successful show that combined very dark elements with a hero who
was not always victorious. As the number of people reading fantasy
increased the potential audience for fantasy in movies and TV over time,
contemporary events created a population which was prepared to accept
extreme conspiracy theories and inconclusive endings. Another element of
the critical mass, perhaps? In order to deal with the triumph of good over
evil, you have to deal with some depiction of evil.
So now, science fiction and fantasy are no longer
separated from the mainstream; we (the members of the sf
community) are the mainstream; or we could be the mainstream,
if the "we" in question lumps people who read together with
people who watch movies and TV.
Print materials never achieve the mass audience
numbers that the more accessible video forms acquire, and I think it
unlikely that they ever will.
Bemoaning the advent of mass media, as opposed to
text, is not only a lost cause, but tedious, the current equivalent of the
Victorians whining about the servant problem. The great divide is the text/visual
media gap. Both sides benefit if we find ways of bridging the distance.
While I remain unalterably devoted to text, I believe that the popularity
of fantasy in the movies makes it more likely that publishers will take a
chance and print more fantasy, in the hopes of finding the next Lord of the Rings.
Therefore, fantasy movies are a good thing. I'd like
to see Barry Hughart's Bridge of Birds, Neil
Gaiman's Sandman
books, Andre Norton's Witch World
books, Martha Wells' Ile-Rien books
and Caroline Stevermer's College of Magics all in movie form,
forthwith, preferably made by Mr. Jackson, who gets it right. Fantasy is
inherently an optimistic form of literature. It tells you that if you are
hard-working, if you are brave and if you are intelligent, you can make a
difference in your society. Therefore we should travel optimistically,
enjoying the good movies and evading the bad, in the same way that we have
been doing with books for centuries.
Loma Toolis, Collection Head
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Interview:
Ed Greenwood
Ed Greenwood may
well be Canada's best selling fantasy writer. Since he sold his
Forgotten Realms campaign to TSR in 1986, Forgotten Realms has become TSR's best selling product with sales in the millions.
He has since written numerous novels, adventures and short stories. His
biography and bibliography follow the interview.
When did you
decide that you were going to write a book? How long did it take you to
actually get your first book written?
I can't remember a time when I wasn't being read to,
or reading books on my own, or making up "what happened next"
imaginary sequels to favourite works of fiction.
From childhood, I wrote just to please myself. I
hazily recall asking my parents and my aunt, "What happened
next?" (plus specific queries about this or
that character, and their aims) when a story they read to me came to its
end. I know I started making up such answers once I was reading by myself
(around age four, I'd guess). Eventually I started writing those answers
down.
I had no idea the Realms
would eventually be a game setting, and a playground for millions of other
folks; I started to create it just to please me.
By the time I was eight, I was regularly writing
fantasy short stories for my own entertainment. I was nine when I wrote my
first novel, in longhand. It took about a month, and was about 90,000 words
long in its initial form.
My first Realms
novel, Spellfire,
written in 1986, also took a month to write in longhand, and was published
a year later—after a change in editorial staff at my publishers
resulted in a different desired length, and over a third of it was rather
roughly chopped out (by them). A rewritten version will appear in Spring
2002 (not restored to its original length, but with some of the worst
wounds of the first published edition smoothed over).
Did you ever
think that you might want to write science fiction instead of, or as well
as, fantasy?
I've written several science fiction short stories, a
handful more of what might best be called "space opera," and am
puttering away on some "hard" sf ideas
(which will probably someday become short stories, because I don't consider
them sufficient to carry to novel length). My agent probably wants me to
stay with fantasy novels, but I'd be very happy if I could at some future
time pull together a collection of sf shorter
fiction that could even faintly echo some of the delights I've read in
collections by, say, Roger Zelazny, John Varley, and Spider Robinson. Worldbuilding
is my thing, and I appreciate the settings painted so vividly in the Heechee and Ringworld books, Windhaven, Jack Vance's Alastor series, and of course
I could go on listing memorable works. I'm not sure I'm worthy or ready to
write good sf yet—and I'd rather write no sf than add to the ranks of bad or "me too" sf.
How did your
gaming affect your writing? Did you turn gaming scenarios into novels?
Putting things in game terms (where one has to be
specific, and spell out exact amounts and strengths, without any of the
"I'll just leave this impression and move on" fudging available
to the fiction-only writer) forced me to detail aspects of the world (trade
flows, localized scarcities and abundances—and therefore, the
"character" of the land in this or that area, and history to
explain "how things got that way," and so on). The driving
impetus for doing this were my excellent groups of players, who asked the
same sort of questions about the world that I'd asked my family when they
were reading to me.
When I was asked to write Realms novels, I was careful to keep them entirely fictional
(created new, that is, not based on accounts of game play sessions),
because good roleplaying has many, many subplots
going on simultaneously, and rarely has neat or tidy endings. There was a
brief period in which fictionalized roleplaying
sessions were popular as fantasy "novels"—and most of them
are pretty bad, because they tend to fall into an endless succession of
"And then this happened, and then that happened, followed by this
other thing" sequences rather than having a plot and any satisfying
climaxes or conclusions.
I used my early Realms
novels as opportunities to introduce many interesting characters, sayings,
descriptions of locales, and so on, to give other Realms writers and fans
more "toys to play with." This was enormously satisfying.
When did you
realize that the Forgotten Realms
was enormously popular? How did it feel?
I knew from the wild sales figures and floods of mail
(all paper mail in those days (1981-1987); TSR staffers would tell me how
many bags of mail had come in during phone calls) that the Realms was an instant hit once it
was released as a campaign setting. There's nothing "instant"
about an instant hit, of course; the purchasers were DRAGON®
readers who recognized the Realms from
seven years of articles, and pounced on it.
I was and am delighted that folks loved the Realms and wanted to know ever-more
about it. I knew from editorial comments that the Realms was very popular. There was a
series of Realms-only products released: novels, boxed
sets of the setting and "dungeons," and slender paperback
adventure "modules". By 1987 it was setting sales records.
I'm pleased that I can reach, delight, and entertain
folks all over the world. To be regarded as a friend, and asked to name
babies (even father babies!) at conventions, write blessings as myself or
as Elminster at weddings (and even preside over
weddings, regardless of my utter lack of religious credentials to do so!)
by fans all over the world is both gratifying and a little overwhelming.
I've been offered the keys to a city, had a local business owner drop
everything to want to give me a tour of "his" city, been asked by
parents of terminally-ill children to write a letter as Elminster
or a few paragraphs of fiction to say "what happened next" to
this or that character, found myself talking about my writing to almost an
entire small town who've turned out to see this foreigner because their
kids wanted them to—these are all honours
that leave me awestruck, a little embarrassed, and touched. If I can make folks
happy—well, what higher achievement is there?
When do you
write? Do you set a schedule and keep to it? Or how does it work for you?
My writing life is far too busy to either "wait
to be inspired" or keep to a schedule, unless one calls "sitting
down and typing at a keyboard for the majority of every day" a
schedule.
For instance, during the week in which I'm typing
these words, I'm finishing one full-length novel; starting another; writing
the outline for a third; expanding a 100,000-word gaming product (a
complete invented fantasy city) with more text and maps; correcting the
galleys of both a short story in a science fiction anthology and my next-to-be
published novel; drafting a concept for a series of novels; writing three
magazine articles; writing three Web columns for one of my publishers;
reading manuscripts from three other writers to "blurb" them for
my publishers (write little dustjacket comments);
drafting an "idea arc" for a television series; and writing
individual topic proposals for a dozen monthly magazine articles.
Many writers create fiction and submit it to
publishers, either directly or through agents, in hopes of getting it
published; I'm always running like the Red Queen in Alice just to keep up with projects I already have contracts—and
deadlines!—for. I haven't time to wait for ideas to strike me;
instead, I haven't time to get all the ideas I have into written form.
When did you
start gaming? What did you play?
From earliest childhood I've enjoyed games—games
involving strategy ("played on boards with cool maps") in
particular. I grew up playing chess and during my school years enjoyed
Featherstone-style miniatures wargaming; but the
game that shaped my writing life was Dungeons
& Dragons, for which I've written articles, boxed game sets,
sourcebooks, adventure modules, novels, computer games, short stories, and
television treatments. Many of them feature a world setting I originally
developed for my own "home" D&D campaign play, known as The Forgotten Realms.
Do you still find
time to game?
My steadily-decreasing time (a situation shared by my
regular players) has meant that our gaming sessions have become fewer and
fewer. Like all old friends, we can pick right up where we left off years
ago if need be, but that's not the same as "regular" play. For
the record, I prefer mixed-gender, mixed-age groups of players at least
four strong, probably 4-6. I can handle more, but above eight or so, the DM
becomes a bottleneck and the quieter players don't get as much
"involved time" as they should. Remember, if I'm running a game,
I'm taking up three or four hours of my players' lives—I owe it to
them to give them good entertainment value for that time.
Every GenCon I try to game
in three ways: I do my share of "gaming celebrity" events to
raise money for charity, usually set up by the RPGA; I try to participate
in a once-a-year play session with Peter Adkison
as DM (my fellow players include Margaret Weis, Don Perrin, Tracy Hickman,
Troy Denning, and Jeff Grubb); and I try to hold at least one
"open" gaming session for folks who can't get tickets or spend
big coins on the charity event, to "just hang out" and game in
the Realms with me—something
special for kids who've traveled halfway around the world to get to GenCon. Most GenCons have
also involved short demonstration play sessions for local television media
("this is D&D®") or to introduce new games (for
example, I recall a CBC crew from The
Nature of Things filming me one year as I was wearing Rocky &
Bullwinkle hand puppets and happily portraying characters from the game of
the same name, funny voices and all).
Was there a
specific genesis for Elminster? Someone or some
series of events that started you thinking in a particular direction?
Aside from a few Realms
short stories written back in 1967 through 1969, Elminster
was originally a mouthpiece for my DRAGON articles; he was a less arrogant
way of introducing a new article topic than saying, "Hi, you don't
know me, but my name's Ed Greenwood and I've just thought of a new way of
rolling dice that all of you didn't, so pay attention, now..."
He was also a way of keeping DRAGON articles useful.
In those days, everybody interested in D&D read every issue of the
magazine as it came out, so players knew everything in an article as well
as Dungeon Masters did. If you're writing with an omniscient voice, as
rules designers must ("If artillery fires across the Rhine, use Table 1, but night
firing is subject to the effects of Table 2 due to the effects of
darkness"), you can't build in any uncertainty.
A fiction narrative (at least, to be publishable in
today's market) has to tell a single story; rarely do we get to tease by
exploring all possible outcomes. You're expected to tell a story.
For maximum play possibilities in gaming, however, an
"unreliable narrator" such as Elminster
can say, "There are rumours that trolls
infest the abandoned ruins of the castle, but no less an authority than the
adventurer Steeleye insists that Firefall Castle is actually the abode of a necromancer
who has been creating zombies surgically made to look like trolls—and
the Lord of Firefall insists that there are no
monsters in the ruins, just thieves and brigands who tell wild tales to
keep honest but overly curious folk away from their lair."
Note that I as the author have said nothing definite
in the passage above, but I've tossed a lot of ideas to the reader. That's
what I needed my unreliable narrator to do. I've used a dishonest and lazy
young idiot named Volo in game products a time or
two, but Elminster was older and wiser than that,
so he could say more.
I wanted a sly old wizard (later used in game play as
an NPC, but never a PC) so that he could have an agenda of his own (that
is, an ongoing reason for lying beyond sheer personal nastiness, so a DM
could change things freely and not be "contradicting official Realms material") and so that
he could ignore let alone survive the onslaughts of furious player
characters (if someone stuck a sword through him, he could say,
"That's nice. Finished? Feel better now?"). So Elminster was born. He's more Merlin than he is Gandalf
or Belgarath—in fact, if you look at Nicol Williamson 's portrayal of Merlin in the movie Excalibur, remove the skullcap, and
change the red hair to dark brown, the result will be pretty close to Elminster's whimsical behaviour
and general looks; Old El of course predates the movie, too.
Left to my own devices, I'd never have written a
series of books starring Elminster. I'd have left
him a supporting character, like Gandalf in LOTR, so he can stay mysterious and the story can concentrate
on heroes/heroines who are less old, knowledgeable, and capable—folks
who don't have to take on Sauron personally just
to find a good match.
However, my publisher, my readers, and Realms gaming fans keep clamouring for more Elminster
tales (Elminster.. The Making Of A Mage had 75,000 copies printed in
its initial hardcover run, came out on Boxing Day, and was sold out by New
Year's Day!), so ...l guess he's my Sherlock Holmes. By the way, I never
chose the plotlines of any of my Elminster
books—I was assigned them. Not until Elminster In Hell was I able to really twist the format to do the sort
of storytelling that I wanted to do. And yes, there will be more Elminster books unless I get run over by a truck
tomorrow.
So Elminster has a little
bit of every old wise mysterious male character I'd read in my childhood in
him. He sprang to life in 1967, in the tale "One Comes, Unheralded, To
Zirta"—the very first Realms fiction,
published as a chapbook in 2000 and on the Wizards of the Coast website in
2001.
He owes a little bit to the Old Storyteller of
Thornton W. Burgess, a little bit to Merlin, a little bit to Gandalf, a
trifle to Fagin, a trifle to the literary character Glencannon,
a little bit more to the real-life (and long since sadly deceased) English
comedian Michael Flanders, and so on.
What do you
read? Both for fun and for professional interest? Do you have a top five or ten favourite books?
Please list a couple. Do you re-read?
I read, and have always read, everything—and
voraciously. A typical novel takes me about two hours, these days (slower
than in my youth), and longer if it's particularly bad, or I'm copyediting
it as I go, or if I'm slowing down to really enjoy it. The pressures of
work have inevitably cut into my reading time—not since my teens have
I been able to sit back and devour four books a day. However, I've been at
this for some time now, have worked in libraries for nigh thirty years, get
asked to read and "blurb" (those little quotes on the covers of
books that say things like, "Best book I read this morning!" or
"A masterpiece to rival Tolkien!") lots
of genre titles, and have over 80,000 books crammed into my house. Darn
near every author I read is an influence, in some small way, good or bad.
Here are the 'big influences' (writers I admire, have
been inspired by, or studied to see how they pulled something off): Lord Dunsany, Rudyard Kipling, P.G. Wodehouse,
J. R. R. Tolkien, Roger Zelazny,
Fritz Leiber, James H. Schmitz, Guy Gavriel Kay, Edith Pargeter,
Terry Pratchett, Alexei Panshin,
Clark Ashton Smith, Fritz Leiber, Phil Stong, John Bellairs, Colin
Watson, Avram Davidson, Randall Garrett, Patricia
McKillip, Robin McKinley, Michael Moorcock,
Spider Robinson, Leslie Charteris, Steven Brust, Julian May, Ursula K. LeGuin,
Katherine Kurtz, Peter S. Beagle, H. Beam Piper, John Dickson Carr, Lin
Carter, and Caroline Stevermer.
There are many, many others I enjoy reading, from
Stephen Donaldson to David and Leigh Eddings,
through Robertson Davies, Connie Willis, Dave Duncan and Tanya Huff to Bob
Salvatore to Elaine Cunningham, and of course every writer who
"transports" a reader adds to one's life and experiences.
I've listed these folks with roughly the largest
influences first, but in no particular order thereafter. It's been my
pleasure and privilege to get to know some of these writers as friends ‑
as well as many others in publishing. I read, and re-read, favourites all the time. It's impossible for me to
choose a "ten best" or anything like it, but if the house was
burning down and I was snatching and scooping books I wouldn't want to be
without for the rest of my life, I'd be sure to grab:
- The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings (Tolkien)
- Tigana and A Song
For Arbonne (Kay)
- Nine Princes In Amber and A Night In The Lonesome October (Zelazny)
- The Blue Sword and The Hero And The Crown (McKinley)
- The Thurb
Revolution (Panshin)
- The Persistence of Vision
(John Varley)
[ed: This list
has been shortened for brevity]
As someone active on all sides of the "literary
life" (academe, reviewing, publishing, as an archivist and collector,
maker of indices, writing, editing, occasionally purchasing for bookstores
or libraries, and sometimes collaborating with or rescuing the works of
others) I can say that although dreck and gems
can be found in all genres of fiction, fantastic literature in all of its
forms (from science fiction through sword-and-sorcery and ghost and fairy
tales to high fantasy) has during the latter half of the twentieth century
embraced the majority of the most important, seminal, and satisfying
published works of literature. I know many "mainstream" writers,
critics, and academics who habitually look down their noses at
"genre" work of all sorts, but the loss (and the deficiency in
appraising what is "good" or "vital," to the detriment
of those they teach or influence) is theirs.
I understand
that you collect science fiction and fantasy art, as well as reading the
books. How did you acquire this hobby?
I collect fantasy art for personal pleasure and for
professional need. To explain the "need" part of that: in the
early days of D&D® it was often necessary to provide
freelance artists unfamiliar with the game or the genre with "it looks
like this" art orders (one artist, I recall, had apparently never seen
a horse before!), so we all created our own clippings files, and also
referenced books of art or book covers that the artist might have access
to. As as result, I collected lots of fantasy
images, pictures of weapons, castles, beasts, and sf
themes. I've always been interested in the illustration, first and foremost—not
its value, or in "having an original." I'm just as happy buying
the annual Spectrum anthologies
or posters to get my hands on the images as I am trying to buy limited-edition
prints or originals and trying to get them home undamaged (somehow!)
through customs and airports and all the rest of it. I want to know that
someone, somewhere, is keeping the originals climate-controlled and safe
for the rest of us to enjoy, down the years ...but I'll buy the postcards.
My cottage walls, for example, are adorned with lots of 5"x8"
postcards popped into $3.95 plain wooden frames bought at discount stores
(why not? they fit above light switches, whereas the rest of the walls are
covered with bookcases!). I like to be surrounded by favourite
pieces of art when I write, but they're often just cheap annual fantasy art
calendars. I do have some prints that bear inscriptions "to me"
from the artists, and I treasure those ...but a person whose name doesn't
happen to be "Ed" probably wouldn't. After years of cramming
these things into portfolios and sliding them between, over, and under
books in a crammed study, I've recently begun unearthing some of them and
getting them framed—and the framing is costing me ten times what the
art ever did!
You mentioned
that there was some interest in turning Forgotten
Realms into the next Xena. Can you tell us anything more about this?
This might well never happen. Hasbro, Inc. (who own
Wizards of the Coast, Inc. who absorbed TSR, Inc. who own the rights to the
Forgotten Realms) has signed an
agreement with FireWorks Television, Inc. (part
of CanWest Global) to create a live-action Forgotten Realms fantasy television
series. FireWorks has produced television series such as Relic Hunter and films such as the
comedy Rat Race.
This was announced in an August 2001 press release; I
was privately told about it beforehand at the annual GenCon
convention in early August.
Initial indications were that the series would
probably be syndicated, would have exteriors shot in Ireland and interiors done around Toronto and since then, I've heard
nothing more. (I've been too busy chasing deadlines to dare ask, in case
folks want to fly me places and rope me into meetings and so on!)
My own guess is that many fantasy properties have
recently been acquired, but that the box office for the Harry Potter and The Lord of the Rings movies will be
looked at carefully before some of these things get made.
I'd love to see a good, character-based, multiple-intrigues-interweaving
Realms series that features
young, growing-up-and-learning-as-we-watch main characters with the
"big names" like Elminster kept firmly
in the background. I'd love to work on such a thing behind the scenes, and
have offered to. I won't hold my breath waiting for it to appear, I'd hate
to see a bad Realms adaptation—and
no, I don't expect to be asked to play Elminster!
(Or Xena, for that matter...)
Do you have a
bibliography available for fans?
I have attached a bibliography. It omits all the
journalistic, poetry, editing, "ghosting," charity, and suchlike
writing I've done—as well as dozens of short stories (for example,
one for last year's Ad Astra programme
booklet; I do many such for various conventions). Sorry it's not complete,
but down the years I've just been too busy to list everything (literally
hundreds of magazine articles, for example), and it's literally too late
now to recall everything!
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Ed
Greenwood’s Bibliography
TSR/Wizards of the Coast:
by Greenwood:
- CM8 / The Endless Stair
(D&D adventure module, 1987)
- FR1 / Waterdeep
And The North (AD&D Realms sourcebook, 1987)
- Spellfire (Realms novel, 1987)
- Secrets of the Sages
(newsletter, 1988)
- GAZ8 / The Five Shires
(D&D sourcebook, 1988)
- FR11 / Dwarves Deep
(AD&D Realms sourcebook, 1990)
- FR13 / Anauroch (AD&D Realms sourcebook, 1991)
- FOR2 / The Drow Of The Underdark
(AD&D Realms sourcebook, 1991)
- FRE1 / Shadowdale (AD&D adventure module, 1989)
- FRE2 / Tantras (AD&D adventure module, 1989)
- FRE3 / Waterdeep (AD&D adventure module, 1989)
- FA1 / Halls Of The High
King (AD&D adventure module, 1990)
- SJR1 / Lost Ships
(AD&D Spelljammer sourcebook, 1990)
- 1060 / The Ruins of UnderMountain (AD&D Realms boxed game set,
1991)
- FRQ1 / Haunted Halls of Eveningstar (AD&D adventure module, 1992)
- 9379 / Volo's Guide To Waterdeep
(AD&D sourcebook, 1992)
- 1084 / The Ruins of Myth Drannor (AD&D Realms boxed game set, 1993)
- FOR4 / Code of the
Harpers (AD&D Realms sourcebook, 1993)
- 9393 / Volo's Guide To The North (AD&D Realms
sourcebook, 1993)
- Crown of Fire (paperback
Realms novel [sequel to Spellfire], 1994)
- 9460 / Volo's Guide To The Sword Coast (AD&D Realms
sourcebook, 1994)
- Elminster: The Making Of A Mage
(hardcover Realms novel, 1994)
- Shadows of Doom (Realms
novel: Book One of The Shadow of the Avatar trilogy, 1995)
- Cloak of Shadows (Realms
novel: Book Two of The Shadow of the Avatar trilogy, 1995)
- All Shadows Fled (Realms
novel: Book Three of The Shadow of the Avatar trilogy, 1995)
- 9475 / The Seven Sisters
(AD&D Realms sourcebook, 1995)
- 9486 / Volo's Guide To Cormyr
(AD&D Realms sourcebook, 1995)
- Elminster: The Making Of A Mage
(paperback edition of earlier Realms novel, 1995)
- 9524 / Volo's Guide To The Dalelands
(AD&D Realms sourcebook, 1996)
- Stormlight (paperback Realms novel,
1996)
- Elminster In Myth Drannor (hardcover Realms novel, 1997)
- 9545 / Prayers From The
Faithful (AD&D Realms sourcebook, 1988)
- The Mercenaries
(paperback Realms novel, 1998)
- The Temptation of Elminster (hardcover Realms novel, 1998)
- 9575 / The City of Ravens
Bluff (AD&D RPGA-Network Realms sourcebook, 1998)
- Elminster In Myth Drannor (paperback edition of earlier Realms
novel, 1998)
- Silverfall: Stories of the Seven
Sisters (trade paperback Realms novel, 1999)
- TSR11430 / Secrets of the
Magister (AD&D Realms sourcebook, 2000)
- Volo's Guide To Baldur's Gate
II (AD&D Realms sourcebook, 2000)
- Elminster In Hell (hardcover
novel, 2001)
Forthcoming:
- Spellfire (revised edition trade
paperback novel, 2002)
- Crown of Fire (trade
paperback edition, 2002)
- Hand of Fire (trade
paperback novel, 2002)
TSR /Wizards of
the Coast:
Co-written by Greenwood:
- 1031 / Forgotten Realms
Campaign Set (boxed game set, 1987, with Jeff Grubb)
- H3 /The Bloodstone Wars
(AD&D adventure, 1987, with Michael Dobson & Douglas Niles)
- FR4 / The Magister (AD&D Realms sourcebook, 1988, with
Steve Perrin)
- 1040 / City System (AD&DRealms boxed game set, 1988, with Jeff
Grubb)
- REFS / Lords of Darkness
(AD&D sourcebook, 1988, with six sub-contributors)
- 2106 /Forgotten Realms
Adventures (AD&D hardcover Realms sourcebook, 1990, with Jeff
Grubb)
- 1083 / Menzoberranzan (AD&D Realms boxed game set,
1992, with Douglas Niles & Bob Salvatore)
- 1085 / Forgotten Realms
2nd Edition Campaign Setting (boxed game set, 1993, with Jeff Grubb)
- 1109 / City of Splendors (AD&D Realms boxed
game set, with Steve Schend)
- 9491 / Pages from the
Mages (AD&D Realms sourcebook, 1995, with Tim Beach)
- Cormyr: A Novel (hardcover
bestseller, 1996, with Jeff Grubb)
- 9535 / Volo's Guide To All Things Magical
(AD&D-Realms sourcebook, 1996, with Eric L. Boyd)
- Cormyr: A Novel (paperback
edition of earlier Realms novel, 1998)
- The Diamond (1998, novel,
with J. Robert King)
- Death of the Dragon
(2000, hardcover novel, with Troy Denning)
- Death of the Dragon
(2001, paperback edition of earlier hardcover novel, with Troy
Denning)
- Forgotten Realms 3rd
Edition Campaign Setting (hardcover book, 2001, with Skip Williams,
Sean K. Reynolds, and Rob Heinsoo)
Forthcoming:
- The Silver Marches (3E
D&D Realms sourcebook, 2002, with Jason Carl)
Other:
TSR / Wizards of the Coast Publications Ed has
contributed to:
- REF4/The Book of Lairs II
(AD&D adventure sourcebook, 1987)
- 2022 / Manual of the
Planes (AD&D sourcebook, 1987)
- AC11 /The Book of
Wondrous Inventions (D&D sourcebook, 1987)
- FR5 / The Savage Frontier
(AD&D Realms sourcebook, 1988)
- FR7 / Hall of Heroes
(AD&D Realms sourcebook, 1989)
- FR9 / Bloodstone Lands (AD&D Realms
sourcebook, 1989)
- 8442 / The Forgotten
Realms Atlas (by Karen Wynn Fonstad, 1990)
- FR 15 / Gold and Glory
(AD&D Realms sourcebook, 1992)
- FR16 / The Shining South
(AD&D Realms sourcebook, 1993)
- FRC2 / Curse of the Azure
Bonds (AD&D adventure module, 1989)
- MC3 / Monstrous
Compendium, Volume Three (AD&D sourcebook, 1989)
- MC11 / Monstrous
Compendium, Volume 11 (AD&D sourcebook, 1991)
- LC2 / Inside Ravens Bluff
(AD&D Realms sourcebook, 1990)
- 1056 / Castles (AD&D
boxed game set, 1990: "Darkhold"
booklet)
- Ravenloft Campaign Setting
(AD&D boxed game set, 1991)
- FOR3 / Pirates of the
Fallen Stars (AD&D Realms sourcebook, 1992)
- 9358 / Aurora's Whole Realms Catalogue
(AD&D sourcebook, 1992)
- DMGR4 / Monster Mythology
(AD&D sourcebook, 1992)
- 2126 / AI-Qadim Arabian Adventures (AD&D sourcebook,
1992)
- DMR2 / Creature Catalog
(D&D sourcebook, 1993)
- Realms of Valor (Realms
short story collection, edited by James Lowder,
1993)
- 9912/1993 TSR Master
Catalog-Collectors Edition (1993)
- 2140 / Monstrous Manual
(AD&D sourcebook, 1993)
- 2138 / Book of Artifacts
(AD&D hardcover sourcebook, 1993)
- PG2/Player's Guide to the
Forgotten Realms" Campaign (AD&D Realms sourcebook, 1993)
- FRS1 / The Dalelands (AD&D Realms sourcebook, 1993)
- 9410 / Cormyr (AD&D Realms sourcebook, 1994)
- 1111 / Elminster's Ecologies (AD&D Realms boxed game
set accessory, 1994)
- Realms of Infamy (Realms
short story collection, edited by James Lowder,
1994)
- 2145 / Monstrous
Compendium Annual, Volume One (AD&D sourcebook, 1994)
- 2141 / Encyclopedia Magica, Volume 1 (AD&D sourcebook, 1995)
- 9474 / The Moonsea (AD&D Realms sourcebook, 1995)
- 9470 / Cutthroats of Lankhmar (AD&D sourcebook, 1995)
- 2152 / Encyclopedia Magica, Volume 2 (AD&D sourcebook, 1995)
- 1120 / Ruins of Zhentil Keep (AD&D Realms boxed game set,
1995)
- 2157 / Encyclopedia Magica, Volume 3 (AD&D sourcebook, 1995)
- 9484 / The Sword of the
Dales (AD&D Realms adventure module, 1995)
- 1121 / Spellbound: Thay, Rashemen, and Aglarond AD&D Realms boxed game set, 1995)
- 9485 / The Secret of Spiderhaunt (AD&D Realms adventure module,
July 1995)
- 9488 / The Return of
Randal Mom (AD&D Realms adventure module, 1995)
- 2161 / Encyclopedia Magica, Volume 4 (AD&D sourcebook, 1995)
- Realms of Magic (Realms
short story collection, edited by Brian Thomsen, 1995)
- 2158 / Monstrous
Compendium Annual, Volume Two (AD&D sourcebook, 1995)
- 9492 / Wizards &
Rogues of the Realms (AD&D Realms sourcebook, 1995)
- Realms of the Underdark (Realms short story collection, edited
by J. Robert King,1996)
- 9520 / The Vilhon Reach (AD&D Realms sourcebook, written
by Jim Butler, 1996)
- 1142 /The North (AD&D
Realms boxed set, by slade with Steve Schend, 1996)
- 2165 / Wizard's Spell
Compendium, Volume 1 (AD&D sourcebook, 1996)
- 2166 / Monstrous
Compendium" Annual, Volume 3 (AD&D sourcebook, 1996)
- 1147 / Netheril: Empire Of Magic (AD&D boxed set, by slade with Jim Butler, 1996) 2168 / Wizard's Spell
Compendium, Volume 2 (AD&D sourcebook, 1996)
- 9516 / Faiths &
Avatars (AD&D Realms sourcebook, by Julia Martin and Eric L. Boyd,
1997)
- 9525 / Heroes' Lorebook (AD&D Realms sourcebook, by Dale
Donovan with Paul Culotta, 1997)
- 9563 / Powers &
Pantheons (AD&D-Realms sourcebook, written by Eric L. Boyd, 1997)
- 1159 / Lands of Intrigue
(AD&D boxed set, by Steve Schend, 1997)
- 9562 / Hellgate Keep (AD&D Dungeon Crawl"
adventure, by Steve Schend,1998)
- Realms of the Arcane
(Realms short story collection, 1998, edited by Brian Thomsen)
- 9547 / Cult of the Dragon
(AD&D Realms sourcebook, written by Dale Donovan, 1998)
- 1165 / Cormanthyr, Empire of the Elves (AD&D Realms
sourcebook, written by Steve Schend, 1998)
- Realms of Mystery (Realms
short story collection, 1998, edited by Phil Athans)
- 9552 / Villains' Lorebook (AD&D Realms sourcebook, written by
Dale Donovan, 1998)
- 9558 / The Fall of Myth Drannor (AD&D Realms adventure, written by
Steve Schend, 1998)
- 9561 / Empires of the Shining Sea (AD&D Realms
sourcebook, written by Steve Schend, 1998)
- 9585 / Deities (AD&D
Realms sourcebook, written by Eric L. Boyd, 1998)
- 9589 / Calimport (AD&D Realms sourcebook, written by
Steve Schend,1998)
- 2173 / Monstrous Compendium"
Annual, Volume Four (AD&D sourcebook, 1998)
- 2175 / Wizard's Spell
Compendium, Volume 3 (AD&D sourcebook, 1998)
- 2177 / Wizard's Spell
Compendium, Volume 4 (AD&D sourcebook, 1998)
- 11348 / Skullport (AD&D Realms sourcebook, written by
Joseph Wolf, 1999)
- 11359 / Priests Spell
Compendium, Volume 1 (AD&D sourcebook, 1998)
- 11393 / Sea of Fallen Stars (AD&D Realms
sourcebook, written by Steve Schend, 1999)
- 11405 / Wyrmskull Throne (AD&D Realms adventure, by
Steve Schend and Thomas Reid, 1999)
- 11421 / Priest's Spell
Compendium, Volume 2 (AD&D sourcebook, 1999)
- 11509 / Drizzt Do'Urden's Guide
to the Underdark (AD&D Realms
sourcebook, by Eric L. Boyd, 1999)
- 11611 / Priest's Spell
Compendium, Volume 3 (AD&D sourcebook, 2000)
- Realms of the Deep
(Realms short story collection, 2000, edited by Phil Athans)
- 11431 / Guide To Hell
(AD&D sourcebook, written by Chris Pramas,
2000)
- 11627 / Cloak &
Dagger (AD&D Realms sourcebook, 2000)
- The Halls of Stormweather (Realms short story collection, 2000,
edited by Phil Athans) D&D Monster
Manual (3E D&D rulebook, 2000)
- Monsters of Faerun (3E D&D-Realms sourcebook, 2001)
- Magic of Faerun (3E D&D-Realms sourcebook, 2001)
- Lords of Darkness (3E
D&D-Realms sourcebook, 2001)
Forthcoming:
- Realms of Shadow (Realms
short story collection, 2002 , edited by Phil Athans)
More on Ed...
Ed is at work on new novels and game projects for TSR,
Inc/Wizards of the Coast, Kenzer & Co.,
Obsidian Studios, Cyber Realms Inc., and TOR Books. He also co-created the Mommist fantasy world (to be published by Vision Books)
with noted fantasy author Lynn Abbey, and is developing more fantasy
settings. His Geanavue: the Stones of Peace, a completely
detailed D&D fantasy city for use in the Kingdoms of Kalamar fantasy world setting, will published by Kenzer & Company in February, 2002.
Ed has contributed articles and short stories to
dozens of magazines, including Gameplay and
Troll, and to fantasy short story anthologies such as Tales From Tethredril (Del Rey, 1998), Northern
Horror (Quarry Press, 2000), Be Afraid.! (Tundra Press, 2000), The Doom of Camelot (Green Knight Publishing, 2000) and The Book of All Flesh (Eden Studios, 2001). Ed's short
story 'The Dragonjaw Door' was included in the
Souvenir CD-ROM published by the 2001 World Fantasy Convention,
and his short fiction has been published in many collectible convention
books, chapbooks, and programme booklets.
Ed has appeared on the CBC television programmes Petrie
On Prime and The Nature of
Things, and as a fantasy and gaming "expert' on television shows
in Australia, England, Germany, Sweden, and the United States.
His novel Spellfire inspired a collectible card game, and he's
kept very busy answering e-mails and letters from fans of the Forgotten Realms worldwide, many of
whom ask him to name their newborns or preside at their (Realms-themed)
weddings. There are over three dozen active "fan" Forgotten Realms websites, and at
least one webzine, "Forgotten Trails."
Ed's Band of
Four novels for TOR Books, The
Kingless Land, and The Vacant
Throne, are solid bestsellers, with two sequels on the way (A Dragon's Ascension will appear in
March 2002). Ed will have a short story in the upcoming science fiction
anthology Oceans of Space and
another in the forthcoming Tundra Press horror anthology Be Very Afraid! and
has been asked by American publishing firms to contribute stories to
forthcoming Arthurian and period mystery anthologies.
Ed is a Lifetime Active Member of The Science Fiction
and Fantasy Writers of America, Inc. (SFWA), several other literary and
writers' organizations, and serves on the Township of Cramahe Library Board. His website is currently
under construction, but Ed contributes regular "Elminster
Speaks" articles to the Wizards of the Coast website
(www.wizards.com), where they are from time to time joined by "Ed
Says" Realmslore articles, new Realms short stories and peeks at
"background lore."
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Colin
Wilson and the Royal Ripper Rumpus
Jack the Ripper is arguably the first serial killer on
record. The name still evokes shudders, and, over the years, has inspired a
plethora of books and films—some written as grisly entertainment,
others concerned with the discovery of his still-unknown identity. In this
tradition, writer Alan Moore and artist Eddie Campbell published a graphic
novel titled From Hell, in 16
installments published between 1989 and 1999. The title came from the
closing salutation on a number of letters to the police, allegedly written
by the Ripper himself. The sixteen installments of From Hell were eventually gathered together and published in
book form, and the book itself was adapted as a movie starring Johnny Depp.
In a delightful Appendix II to From Hell—"Dance of the Gull Catchers"—Moore
& Campbell outline the history of researches on Ripper suspects,
featuring frames of the major "Ripperologist"
writer/researchers running about a beach in a pack, flailing about with
butterfly nets. As each new theory or suspect is disproved, the writer or
researcher who had championed it falls flat on his face in the sand—legs
akimbo and butterfly net limp.
There is a little-known sf
connection here. Colin Wilson, the English philosopher and writer of a few sf classics (featured in an article in the last issue
of Sol Rising) is also a noted
criminologist and Ripper enthusiast. He is credited with coining the
phrases "ripperology" and "ripperologist". The most evocative theory of the
Ripper's identity has involved Prince Albert Victor, the Duke of Clarence,
aided by the court physician Sir William Gull. A royal scandal to be sure,
if true, and a theory that has caught the public imagination and spawned a
few blockbuster movies, including From
Hell. The theory first came to light when a man named Thomas Stowell confided it to Wilson. Wilson agreed to keep silent, but
some years later the details were revealed in Stephen Knight's book Jack the Ripper: The Final Solution, and
caused a sensation. Wilson publicly supported the book
and the theory. Some time later, he withdrew his support. What had
happened?
In a three frame section, Moore shows Wilson in the
Athenaeum Club, invited for lunch by "a Peer of the Realm", who
informs Wilson that: "If you persist in linking that noble name with
these sordid little murders ... then certain doors shall remain forever
closed to you ... and you will never receive your knighthood."
Could this be true? Wilson "bought off" with
knighthood? Intrigued, I showed the frames to Wilson. He looked puzzled for a moment
and then said, "That's not what happened. We did go to lunch, but he
was not a 'Peer of the Realm' and it was just a chat at my club. I withdrew
my support for Knight because of inconsistencies that had arisen in the
theory."
So there it was: no serious discussion of knighthood
for Wilson—author of the sf
classics The Space Vampires and The Mind Parasites—and another
tantalizing rumour bites the dust. A pity,
really—it was such a good story. But never mind, the DVD and
videotape versions of the movie From
Hell are due out any time now. We can all revel in the mystery and
recoil from the horror, and, at least for the duration of the movie,
believe that a mysterious Masonic conspiracy threatened a Royal scandal,
and that Jack the Ripper was its instrument.
Ted Brown, Treasurer
Colin Wilson is
the author (with Robin Odell) of Jack the Ripper. Summing up and Verdict
(London: Bantam, 1987 and Corgi, 1988).
Ted Brown is the
author of The Outsider & After: The Writings of Colin Wilson. 1956
to 1996. A Compilation (Toronto:
Letters Bookshop, 1996).
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Nothing
But ‘Net: Websites of Interest
Science fiction has a rich vocabulary of words and expressions that
are finding their way into everyday usage.
As this happens, the sf origins are threatened
with obscurity. Fortunately, the Oxford English Dictionary is preventing
this from happening by giving credit where credit is due. They have begun a series of pilot projects
to find the earliest printed citations of words in a number of specialized fields;
the first such project is science fiction literature. The project's
website, located at <www.jessesword.com/SF/sf_citations.shtml>,
contains information on how to submit a citation, and details on the
earliest printed appearances—found to date—for terms like: bug-eyed
monster (1952), faster than light (1941), genetic engineering (1949),
little green man (1961), ray-gun (1931), space station (1936),
teleportation (1951), terraforming (1949), xenobiology (1954) and zero-g (1952).
A look at the citations
reveals that Robert A. Heinlein and Jack Williamson are amongst the most
prolific coiners of new words. Other names that appear on a regular basis
are Clifford Simak, Theodore Sturgeon and (more
recently) Larry Niven. The project is also
recording the earliest citation to critical words and terminology such as:
cyberpunk (1983), dystopia (1952), New Wave (1968—the
first usage in a science fiction context is credited to Judith Merril in
the introduction to her anthology England
Swings SF), sci-fi (1955) and space opera (1941). A third list catalogs
the unique language of fandom: fanzine (1944), filk
(1959), trekkie (no citations found prior to
1976, but the word was in use before then; the origins of
"trekker" are even more obscure) and worldcon
(1952). In any case, consider this possibility: with the resources of the
Merril Collection at your disposal, a couple of hours of research could
easily turn up a previously unrecorded citation that finds its way into the
next edition of the OED.
Gerry Anderson is best known on this side of the
Atlantic as the man behind the children's TV show Thunderbirds ("Filmed in Videcolor
and Supermarionation"), and Space: 1999; shows appreciated more
for their special effects than for their scientific verisimilitude. There's
a bit of an Anderson revival underway here due to
the fact that A&E is currently releasing DVD and VHS boxed sets
containing pristine episodes of both series. However, in his native England it's a different story. There,
Anderson is recognized as a prolific
TV producer with a lengthy, diverse career. He has an active fan following
whose activities center around the official website of the Gerry Anderson
Appreciation Society located at <www.fanderson.org.uk>. From The Adventures of Twizzle (1957) to Lavender Castle (1996), the site contains
information on almost 30 different movies and TV series produced under Anderson's guidance: most of them
relatively unknown to North American audiences. In addition to the
production guide, the site also contains a news page with word of a two-day
Fanderson convention scheduled for May 2002.
There's a guide to some of the actual locations used in filming episodes of
shows like UFO. And, as you might
expect, there's also a merchandise page, where you can order soundtrack
CD's, books, videos, and back issues of FAB,
the Fanderson club magazine. If all that isn't
enough, then you can probably spend days exploring all the Anderson-related
sites referenced on the Society's extensive Links page. If you used to race
home after school like I did to watch episodes of Supercar or Fireball XL5, then the Fanderson site is an F.A.B. trip down Memory Lane.
I didn't even realize that
there was such an organization as the Toronto Ghosts and Hauntings Research Society, until I stumbled across
their website, <www.torontoghosts.org>.
It's a fascinating compendium of stories about buildings and locations in
and around the city that are alleged to be 'haunted'. Whether or not you
believe in such things, you'll still be fascinated by the stories about
places you thought were familiar. I once lived near the Bloor West Village, and went to movies at the
Runnymede Theatre. I was never aware that the backstage area was rumoured to be haunted by the ghost of a young girl who
was killed onstage by a falling sandbag in the early 1900's. I wonder if
she's still there, now that the theatre has been converted into a bookstore? In the summer, I sometimes ride my bike
through the Humber River Valley, passing under the bridge by
the Old Mill subway station. The next time I do, I'll slow down and see if
I can spot the mysterious figure lurking near the security fence
surrounding the ruins of the original mill, or the woman with the long back
hair and the flowing white dress who haunts the mill itself. The stories go
on and on. Many of them are first person accounts from people who claim to
have had some sort of contact with the spirits they describe. Most of the
reports concern public or government buildings, although there are also
stories of haunted homes and businesses. Strangely enough, there are no
reports of ghosts in any of the city's libraries. I would have thought that
all those musty stacks of old books would have proved irresistible. Even
so, there are more than enough other stories to make repeated visits to the
site worthwhile. I know one thing: I'll never look at places like College Park or Massey Hall quite the same
way again.
Jim Pattison,
Vice Chair
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